Tony Martin

[pabird]

Great belief in banning all guns me but if you have real life experience of pikeys you will know it is not unusual for them to be in possession of firearms

Tony knew pikeys, they had given his home a going over many times before

Therefore he could have reasonably expected them to be armed in one way or another

The question is not should Tony have been prepared to shoot but what were the police doing to help this man who was undergoing serious regular attacks on his home

There were sufficient attacks for this man to suffer serious nervous disorders, But he was not exceeding the speed limit

The police and a certain Mr Blair are cute with the "crime and the causes for crime" speeches but crap in the action stakes

Why has there been no major uproar over the issue that Tony suffered multiple break-ins to his home minus any known actions by the police therefore forcing this man to take drastic action

[The Invisible Firstborn]

Of course, we all know that the police are as much use a chocolate kettle. But they have been for years. Largely down to the ridiculous ammount of paperwork enforced them (mostly during the last Tory governments)

 

You cant just become a vigilante. It would be chaos. Nobody is above the law. Especially hicks with shotguns! It would be like an old WWII film, with the countryside full of folks with pitchforks and scythes!! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

 

And to 'resonably expect' someone to be armed is not enough. You have to KNOW. And you have to be 200% sure that it will be used to kill before you will ever have a leg to stand on in court for the pre-meditated killing of another person. Even if it was a pikey.

[pabird]

The fact that it was a pikey only lent credence to the issue of were they armed

There is very real yardage in a man being disturbed of mind having been a victim the number of times that Tony had

You are not being a vigilante as a farmer holding a gun at home

Would you accept that Tony should not have acted until he faced intruders and could identify the weapons pointed at him?

Should the police have withdrawn his gun license having witnessed his state of mind

You try firing any type of gun and only causing enough damage to prevent retaliation

What action or investigation should the police incur having been comatose throughout

[Big J R]

What can I say I-F ??

 

If Tony Martin had aimed a couple of feet lower, then the said waste of space Pikey WOULDN'T have a leg to stand on today, even though he'd still be alive !!!

 

Had Tony Martin been speeding home to his farm from his local on his trusty tractor, a pint or two over the DD limit, you can BET YOUR BOTTOM DOLLAR old plod would have nicked him as he drove through his farm gates.

 

Bloody strange they were never there when no good little shi*ts were breaking into his premises !

[The Invisible Firstborn]

A farmer holding a gun at home is not being a vigilante.

Taking the law into your own hands and killing a man, however, is.

 

"Would you accept that Tony should not have acted until he faced intruders and could identify the weapons pointed at him?" You say this as if it has been proven that they were armed. But they weren't.

 

He's out in July anyway. He only served 2/3 of his 5-year sentence.

 

Of course, there should be a thorough investigation into the police's actions, and I am not condoning their handling of the case.

 

My point is simply that, to consciously kill a man when you are not in CERTAIN danger of your own life, is murder.

[The Invisible Man]

pabird, you persist in missing the point, with respect.

 

To "reasonably expect" someone to be armed, especially on the grounds of "being a pikey", in no way justifies "reasonable force". What next, do you want to charge people with wearing loud shirts in built-up areas?

 

Above all though, they were running away. There was no longer a threat. It is open and shut in legal terms.

 

I too have farmer friends - at the place where I dig holes - who have suffered raids, including some twats who nicked his diesel and left the hose running thus covering the yard in the stuff. Another time a trannie van with 3 large individuals in it cruised up his access track to be surprised to find a bunch of archaeologists lounging around. They pretended to be lost and enquired the way to Newport Pagnell. We took their number and all that but the van was nicked, surprisingly.

[The Invisible Firstborn]

People are going to think we're co-conspirators!

 

Cant you be a bit more right-wing or something? <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[pabird]

Police and paperwork! no no they commenced their downturn as community police on the advent of Panda cars

They are now afraid very afraid to face the public and worse the criminals whilst on foot

But never mind digital cameras will make their lives that much the easier

[The Invisible Firstborn]

Having a number of chums who are cozzers, and and ex-girlfriend of many years who worked for cozzer top-brass, I can assure you that paperwork takes up a ridiculous amount of their time.

 

Most uniformed officers want to get out on the streets.

[The Invisible Man]

I don't think you can have co-conspirators. By definition there must be at least two anyway, surely?

 

I know I shouldn't call you Shirley btw...

[The Invisible Firstborn]

I was thinking that as I wrote it.

Oh well.

 

And dont call me Sh..... D'oh!

[Ofiicial]

of course the main issue surrounding the parole application being turned down was Martins refusal to show any remorse....good for him........just a thought here.....

 

have any of the posters to this thread actually been burgled.....?

 

have any of the posters to this thread ever had to confront an intruder.......

 

I haven't but I bet that anyone that has will know how martin felt after so may intrusions into his home and the old bill doing nothing to help him....

 

Invisible is right in his summary of how the law stands.....but the law can be an ass sometimes and this surely is one of those times....

 

Im gonna make martin an 'honoury urchin' when he gets out...... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

 

there's a few pikies around here that he can mop up..... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Urchino]

PLEASE DON'T !IM BEGGING YA DON'T! OFFICIAL PLEASE DON'T !

 

everything the Invisables have said on the issue i agree with! I wish he would have got let out in a way because he is like a BLOODY martyr to the Daily Nail

 

ps: There is no way im walking up your drive

 

[The Invisible Man]

have any of the posters to this thread actually been burgled.....?

[color:"red"] not relevant - but sympathy for Martin in that respect has already been expressed [/color]

 

have any of the posters to this thread ever had to confront an intruder.......

[color:"red"] only spiders, and of course Firstborn [/color]

 

I haven't but I bet that anyone that has will know how martin felt after so may intrusions into his home and the old bill doing nothing to help him....

[color:"red"] see above [/color]

 

Invisible is right in his summary of how the law stands.....but the law can be an ass sometimes and this surely is one of those times....

[color:"red"] don't agree - the law must stand as it is. I thought you right wingers were all for law and order? [/color]

 

Im gonna make martin an 'honoury urchin' when he gets out......

[color:"red"] hasn't he been punished enough? [/color]

 

 

urchinho - we fight on, brother!

 

[Halifax Lass]

 

 

I was going to call in next weekend but perhaps I wont' bother now!!!!

 

 

<img src="/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

[The Invisible Firstborn]

Quote:

of course the main issue surrounding the parole application being turned down was Martins refusal to show any remorse....good for him........just a thought here.....

Good for him? If you ask me, it's a bit stupid.
"Show remorse and we'll let you out"
"No!"

What a plank!!!

[Ofiicial]

its called integrity VIS 2..........and as for us right wingers guardianista No 1......being for law and order....course we bloody well are.... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

 

thats why we shoot pikie intruders.......its legal duntyaknow.....they just haven't got around to pushing the consent through the Lords yet..... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

 

we work for our land....we cultivate our land....we protect our land.........anyone violates it.....kill 'em .....all of 'em..... <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Big J R]

I see the Daily Nail has had a mention !!

 

Having just read the Saturday Nail, I note that our Home Sec. intends to take the power of setting sentence from the judges and give it to the public, (i.e. jury). Like some States in the U.S. do.

 

Could be VERY interesting, given most members of the public's views.

 

Does this mean the return of the Death Sentence ???

 

One can only live in hope !

 

Hope you're all having a fab weekend, free from burglars, intruders, pikeys, left wing Guardianista's etc etc ad infinitum.

[Urchino]

Home Secretaries playing to public views happens too much already!

 

As for the idea of setting a set sentence for each crime that sounds to me it should be Tory idea not a bloody Labour one!.............each crime has it's own circumstances.

 

As for the Death Penalty...Thanks but no thanks what would have happened to the Birmingham 6 well they where innocent and would be six feet under!

 

As for a fab weekend thank you i did free from Racists , snobs and Daily Mail readers!

 

 

PS check out www.dailynail.com

 

[Big J R]

I see from the Sunday Nail front page leader,

 

QUOTE:-

 

"ANDREW NEARLY SHOT BY POLICE "

 

Poor old Prince Andrew. Now there IS food for thought !