A bit concerned about finances.

[Hempstead Gaz]

It appears (from what Dave H is saying, and the soon to be released press notice) that we have had an operational loss of £60,000 this year. I have to admit a little surprise and concern at this.

Whilst I appreciate that expenditure was always going to be higher than the original budget because long term injuries neccessitated a number of extra signings, surely this sort of loss is unsustainable for a small club like the Fleet, as we don't have a millionaire backer.

Question - how did this loss arise ?

Based on a budget of 1,000 attendances as a break even figure - we averaged 1230 (approx).

Assuming that most of the extra were adults, and some bought programmes, each would spend, on average, £10 per game. Over 19 home league games, this equates to over £43,000 surplus.

My guess is that we recruited too many players from outside, who were never going to make an impact or have a long term future at the club - Berkeley, Barr, Sodje, Abbott, Coyle, Lye , the list goes on.

What use are reserves if they are not given the opportunity in the first team ?

Would Luke Gedling have been less effective than Abbott, for example - I think not.

The added bonus of using the best reserves to supply the 1st team is a) it is cheaper will give the reserve and fringe players the belief and motivation that they can break into the 1st team.

Panic buying crap players isn't the answer when we have quality players in the reserves.

I remember a couple of seasons ago Matt Gubbins, Ian Gibbs and Peter Mortley all coming through the reserve set up and becoming top players in the Beazer homes league.

These are just 3 quick examples.

Ps. I though the signings of Pennock, Lovett and Giles were inspired - they certainly played at 100% and wore their shirts with pride.

Food for thought, perhaps ?

 

[Matt (GNFC)]

Me 2, Chatham Gary...I thought the statement of accounts were released some 2 months ago though....Why are we only releasing this information now?? Yep, we cant lose 60k a season otherwise we'll goto administration pretty quickly. I too am a little concerned how we are balancing the books.

[Richard C]

The year end accounts would be prepared as at a year ending 31st March I would presume and therefore this amount of time is usual to get all the accounts up to date and drawn up. £60k loss isn’t all bad at this level, Im sure there are grants to apply for and banks will be sympathetic to our cause. Although carrying debentures and loans would not be good. Im sure that the club are in control of it either way and we need to grab some more support for next season, try to get up to 1500 average.

[David Holden]

A full copy of the press statement can be found in today's Reporter.

[Alan ( GNFC )]

Any chance of a brief report Dave , for those out of area folk .

[David Holden]

Well briefly the original press release was faxed to me, but as it is about 1 1/2 pages long, I have neither the time (nor the inclination) to sit there and retype it.

 

I was promised that it would be e-mailed to me yesterday, but it hasn't arrived yet.

[Guest]

By my feeble arithmetic calculations we would need about another 350 on the gate to wipe out the £60k overspend, so that would take us up to an average gate of around 1600 to break even. If, on the other hand we wanted to prosper in the Conference we would probably need at least the same again to grow finances so an average gate of between 1900-2000 will be required.

 

Bring a friend(or three!) next season.

 

On the other hand, if we win two FA Cup games and get Sky TV coverage.........................................

[Stu M]

We could sign for Gazza for one game, offer to pay his bar bill and then Sky might show the game.

 

Although Gazza's bar bill might wipe out the profits.

[Hempstead Gaz]

I have to disagree with Richard's comments. A £60,000 loss is appalling !!!

Many of us remember the club running up losses 20 years ago which almost killed the club.

Let us not go down that road, we have all seen what has happened at clubs like Maidstone, Sittingbourne etc. We do need to run at break even, if not a profit, nor should the director's keep baling us out.

Let us take a hard look at the size of the squad and keep costs to a minimum.

I do agree that a good cup run would help, since we already in the 4th qualifying round let us hope for a lucky, home draw.

[David Holden]

Quote:

Assuming that most of the extra were adults, and some bought programmes, each would spend, on average, £10 per game. Over 19 home league games, this equates to over £43,000 surplus.

 

You can't assume any such thing: The average programme sale was about 1 in 3 and only about 2/3rds of the "surplus" fans would be adults, on this basis the additional amount per match would be about £1,600 which over the 21 matches that we played is £33,600.

 

Quote:

My guess is that we recruited too many players from outside, who were never going to make an impact or have a long term future at the club - Berkeley, Barr, Sodje, Abbott, Coyle, Lye , the list goes on.

 

You would be struggling to add to that list, and of the ones that you have used, Jamie Coyle came through the PASE system, and Danny Lye was an intergral part of the squad that got us into the conference. Of the others, 2 had football league experience and two had conference experience. I don't recall anyone saying at the time that these players were signed that they were rubbish and we shouldn't have signed them.(on the contrary, I seem to remember everybody raving about Sodje sfter his debut) You only find these things out after they have played a few matches.

 

You should also remember that the bigger earners were on a non-contract basis and so were only paid for the matches that they played.

 

Where the real money went was in having Francis Duku sit on the sidelines for all but 8 matches and having to pay for loan players to replace him. (Tim Cole for a month and Chris Giles for 3 months, and then Jay Lovett for a month.) These would not have been low paid players.

 

 

Quote:

Would Luke Gedling have been less effective than Abbott, for example - I think not.

 

Probably as Luke is a midfield player and Gary a striker.

 

Quote:

Panic buying crap players isn't the answer when we have quality players in the reserves

 

Well name them then, because quite frankly, I didn't see anyone in the reserves who didn't get a match in the first team that looked ready for the conference.

 

What you also need to remember is the nice shiny new clubhouse, that didn't come cheap, but will pay for itself over the coming seasons.

 

This really isn't the time for hysterical over-reaction, but a time to calmly consider the position we now find ourselves in and what we are going to do about it.

 

 

 

[Jessica]

What is needed is more people through the turnstile.

 

A a really good cup run. I am sure the Club have not based any figures for the coming season on possibilities. so anything over the 1000, plus a good cup run will be a bonus.

 

We must also remember we had to pay Sturgess contract up,

 

So if you add this to the list from Dave, the club could never have accounted for this kind of payout.

 

Dont' get me wrong I am not looking through rose coloured glasses. But let's all be realistic. we are getting in amongst highly paid players and to keep up we have to move with the times.

 

What we have to do is find ways to help. Hence the soon to be formed Supporters Trust.

[Alan ( GNFC )]

There seems to be an assumption in this thread that all the additional expenses are on the playing squad .

A business of any size generally spends 1/3 of its expenditure on employees , hence a charge out rate generally being 3 times the individuals salary in the service sector .

Football clubs expend a greater percentage , that's why the league is capping Div 3 sides at players wages being 60% of turnover .

Dare I suggest that policing / steward / catering costs ; PASE and other non-first team costs and payment of the Commercial manager go someway too .Did Rob Grindley go at the right time ?

I do not believe the wage structure has spiralled out of control to the tune of £60k when the club was only turning over c£250,000 a couple of years ago .

[Peter W.]

I am totally confused at the moment, I am a shareholder in the club and attended the shareholders meeting earlier this year and looked at the accounts. As far as I can remember the season prior to the season we gained promotion we were £100,000+ in the red, the season of us being promoted made us only £60,000 in the red.In the paper it says we are £60,000 overdrawn,if this is the end result of the last season we have not gone further into debt and broke even, or are these the end of last seasons figures.

I dont see the need for any panic when you look at other Conference Teams debt mountains,this is not saying I am happy with the position, but we must go forward and all see what we can do to help the situation.

[David Holden]

The last shareholders meeting would have seen the accounts for the year ended in 2002, (I can't remember the year sorry) as I recall that year showed a profit, not a loss, but I will try to dig out the accounts and revisit them when I have a few minutes.

[Hempstead Gaz]

My apologies to everyone for stirring up something of a hornet's nest. It certainly wasn't my intention, but it has created some thought provoking comments.

perhaps I was a little hasty saying that we had bought some crap players - a little more diplomatic would have been to say they under achieved and failed to live up to expectations.

However I still get a hollow feeling in my stomach when I read stories of £60,000 losses in a year. I could bear for the club to go to the wall and I'm sure under Brian and the Board all is going to be fine.

Hopefully it is just a 1 year blip caused by our first year in the conference and some bloody awful long term injuries.

[Hempstead Gaz]

Whoops, I missed out a " n't". My penultimate line should have read " I couldn't bear for the club to go to the wall ".

[JimGNFC]

I'm more concerned then hysterical. Can anyone confirm if the £60,000 deficit has been repaid by the directors or whether this debt is still outstanding?

 

Brian Kilcullen is quoted in the Press Release on the back page of the Reporter as saying:

 

"The existing directors will continue to put in time and money but we need even more then that if the club is going to keep moving forward."

 

Does this mean the directors have covered the losses amongst themselves?

 

It also looks like the Club will be run at a loss next season too as Andy Ford is quoted in Thursday's Reporter (P63) about the budget for the forthcoming season:

 

"Brian Kilcullen (chairman) has given me a budget which means the club will still lose money but even that is not enough if we really want to compete at this level - I am not happy to finish fourth from bottom."

 

What worries me is if the debt isn't being repaid then it may become unmanageable after a few seasons, especially if some of the major shareholders leave. Even a Supporters Trust is going to struggle to save the club then.

 

I'd like to add that this is in no-way a criticism of the Board - the ambition and success over the last few seasons compared with previous administrations has been brilliant - Thank you! However, fans will naturally raise concerns when such lossess are announced.

[Wobbly Wayne rides again]

Hence my earlier posting about spreading any sponsorship opportunities to as wide a media as we can. We need a more varied supply of cash coming in to move forward at this level, if that is what we want.

 

Andy is ambitious ( and why not ) and wants better than managing a club scrambling for survival at the bottom of the conference.

 

We as fans are as ambitious , and also want success and glory. ( But not at any price, ie. the long term survival of the club )

 

 

I personally believe that the club is at a crossroads , but it is exciting times.

We either aim to compete at this level, and really put the work in to increase our profile , attendances and generally become a 'bigger' more proffesional club, or we stay as we are and know that we are a very good 'non league' club, but accept out limitations and be content with our lot. ie we might bloody a few noses of the ex league boys from time to time , but we won't really ever compete with them.

 

There are some interesting times ahead.

 

But lets not lose faith, which ever path we take , we need as many followers as possible .

 

Go out and spread the word.

 

The word is the Fleet.

 

Yours sermonly,

 

Rev. Wobbly Wayne

[Guest]

The bottom line is that to make a club pay , we need fans through the gates.

 

Can I just make a few minor suggestions that may help things just a little for us fans.

 

1) I park round by world of leather. Now the footpath round there is not exactly friendly to the less able footed , and is blocked by a bloddy bi bush. Can we just get the council to tidy up a little. Makes it more appealing for people to come , park up , get in and get out. Theres roadworks outside the ground , and it looks generally messy. If it looks accessable , maybe the fans will come.

 

2) Tickets for kids. Why not give kids a voucher via the schools to allow them to come with there mum/dad at a reduced rate. Say £7 for the adult and £1 per child up to 4 kids. Or a family ticket for £15 (2 adults 4 kids). Get the young ones in , and burgers/drinks etc will be required for them and hopefully some income on the day with a long term prospect of those kids coming back again and again.

 

3) Move the Burger and Drinks Stall. Its great where it is , but at time is disorganised and I have seen people on several occasions give up queueing.

 

4) The programme is an improvement on what we had before , but in the winter months , I didnt bother buying , because the red pages with black print was difficult to read in the early winter gloom. Can we not have a white page with a red border (similar to Dagenham) for the programme. Im sure the cost of this will be minimal if not nothing , and more people will buy.

 

5) Trains. Has anyone actually made an approach to Chronic Southeast to aske them to publicise at Gravesend Station and also if there is a slight chance of them running a train service between Gravesend and Dartford on match day weekends.

 

6)Last rant:- I appreciate that a lot of hard work is going into the club , but I see no promotion of the club in the town. No posters anywhere in the pubs/clubs. Are the local sports shops selling the kit? This town is growing fast , and with the right personnel pushing the club in schools and in pubs , then there is no reason why they cannot in ten years , be as big a Yeovil.

[Hempstead Gaz]

Many of these ideas are valid and have been bandied about on this forum before. I believe the club does need a high profile full time press and publicity office, run by proffessional dedicated staff.

 

The remit would be to sell the club and to boost attendances. The fan base already exists. The potential new fanbase is lying dormant, awaiting to be stirred into action. If the club is to move forward and move onto the next step of pushing for the play offs (and moving into a shiny new stadium) now is the time.