Kentish Town - Striker-less

[HTFCew]

Originally Posted By: Gavin

I am sure if Richard Morton had been on form like he was last season whilst at WGC they would have been happy, but 'Morts' will have to write this season off due to injury I am afraid

He scored for them yesterday - maybe you need him back now?

(not that we're due to play them soon or anything )

[Bitch]

Originally Posted By: Football Man

Originally Posted By: Horace

Most dual registration happens with the mutual agreement of the two managers. In theory, there needs to be a 14 day gap between each signing too.

28 days, actually.

Whilst the club that loses the players can make a protest, ultimately it doesn't serve any purpose as the offending club will usually only receive a slap on the wrist. If a club insists on retaining its players in the face of interest from bigger clubs, they tend in most cases to be leaving themselves with unhappy players on their hands giving less than 100% effort to the team.

It's always been dog eat dog and the better players in an overachieving lowly club will always be the targets for bigger clubs. It's happened in the ESL at clubs like Clapton and Stansted for years. Now Kentish Town have stuck their heads above the parapet and Step 4 & 5 clubs are always going to be inclined to have a sniff around to see what they can pick up, especially when (as in this case) the manager of the bigger club has a reasonable knowledge of the club and players already.

Rules are there to be abided by.

If the players are on contract then a 7 day approach must be made. There doesn't have to be a gap of time between approaching the 2 players.

If the players are not on contract, then a seven day approach must be made and the second player cannot be approached until the end of the 7 day period of the first which adds up to 35 days.

[Mcmullen]

A great post as a manager it's tough to take but never try and stop a player who's given his chance, and if it doesn't work be on good terms don't bite your nose off to spite your face should step 5/6 be there level.

Originally Posted By: losingmyhair

I don't disagree that approaches should be done properly through the Chairman of the club, or through the manager. But, I think it's rather a selfish attitude not to want players to make a step up in level. Whoever the player is, division one will always be a place to pick up the odd bargain player. Scott is a good quality player who should attempt to play as high as he can. To deny him that, or to not wish him well, smacks of sour grapes. Clubs in div one need to realise that they act as feeder clubs to bigger clubs, that's the way it is.

[BBFC11]

Originally Posted By: HTFCew

Originally Posted By: Gavin

I am sure if Richard Morton had been on form like he was last season whilst at WGC they would have been happy, but 'Morts' will have to write this season off due to injury I am afraid

He scored for them yesterday - maybe you need him back now?

(not that we're due to play them soon or anything )

He did score yesterday but not the player i remember last season.

[Football Man]

How often does a manager change clubs halfway through a season and a number of players follow him en masse? If the manager's new club followed the 7 day approach rule to the letter, it would take forever to get all his players back with him. In most cases, whether we like it or not, these players are playing for the manager rather than the club and trying to keep them at the manager's old club would be extremely disruptive and performances and results would suffer. Therefore, it is easier to let them go.

 

It happens all the time. This season Terry Back left as Waltham Forest Chairman to become Arlesey Town Chairman. Within a week Danny Honeyball resigned as Waltham Forest manager and became Arlesey Town manager. Within a few days, ten Waltham Forest players had joined Arlesey! What would have been the point of keeping these players at Waltham Forest when they didn't really want to be there? And, as they wanted to play for Honeyball the manager, as opposed to Arlesey Town the club, what is the point of punishing Arlesey?

 

Kevin Lucas took a core number of players from Boreham Wood to Edgware Town to Potters Bar Town to Enfield. Andy Leese has a number of players that have followed him from Potters Bar Town to Cheshunt to Wealdstone to Potters Bar Town to Chesham United. Most of the Ilford squad followed Allan Fenn to Redbridge. Graham Drury is currently signing several players for his new club, Corby Town, from his old one, Stamford.

 

Maybe it isn't right, but it happens all the time and nobody has ever come up with an effective solution to stop it. The only cast iron way is to put players on contract but most clubs can't afford that as it can be an effort to pay the eleven players that take the field on a Saturday without having to worry about finding the money for the four injured players sitting in the stand, income tax, employers liability, etc., etc.

 

If anyone has the perfect solution to prevent poaching, I'd be very interested to see it.

[Bitch]

Very well said FM. Sometimes players don't think and need to be reminded of thier obligations. As do Managers of poaching clubs. I'm not sure, but if an illegal approach is made, can the registration for the poaching club be nulled? I know this will be create the argument of stopping a player progressing etc. But, if the registration is stopped and they have to approach properly then that may be a way forward....

[Mcmullen]

Bitch, this is the 1st time we've 'spoke', but i know one thing you learn very early in management if a play doesn't want to be with you any more and his heart is already destined elsewhere he's not worth having, don't make him wait it does no-one any good.

 

[Bitch]

Originally Posted By: Mcmullen

Bitch, this is the 1st time we've 'spoke', but i know one thing you learn very early in management if a play doesn't want to be with you any more and his heart is already destined elsewhere he's not worth having, don't make him wait it does no-one any good.

We are talking hyperthetically now. The situation Kentish Town are in with the players in question wanting to remain at thier home club but being poached and dazzled by a higher club is a different kettle of fish than players being poached and leaving the home club. If in the latter scenario i'd be inclined to hinder the process, not to annoy the player, but as a lesson to the poaching club

[Wader]

I can't remember the exact wording in The FA rule book, but the SSML one simply and only says with regard to this:

 

"If a non-contract player also registers for a club not in membership of the Competition(SSML), his registration for the Competition may be retained by the club".

 

In this instance the two players concerned must have signed Ryman forms and been registered by that League in time for them to play in Saturday's match. They knew what they were doing in advance, but also probably knew that it didn't affect their registration at their SSML club. It's a good way for a club from a higher league to trial a player, if nothing else. And sometimes it can suit both clubs using this dual registration process to mutual benefit.

[Football Man]

In the Kentish Town situation, I'm not sure if there are any hard and fast rules as to which club has first call on a dual registered player, although common sense would suggest that the bigger the club, the more say it will have.

 

For example, if a player has ambition and has a choice on any given Saturday of testing himself against a Dartford or Canvey Island in the Ryman League or playing against an Amersham Town or Bedford Town reserves which is the more realistic option?

[Bitch]

FM, the 'hard and fast rules' have been highlighted in the two previous posts

[Rhodes]

I understand from discussions during the course of today that we have first call on Scott and Donoghue, when they aren't playing for Waltham Forest then Ged Searson will automatically have the two former Haringey barn door merchants Chima Obiji and Ronardson Obinna at his disposal, that's my understanding of the situation anyway. What has gone on this weekend should certainly add interest to Wednesday evenings fixture with Harpenden Town and we are expecting our biggest gate of the season so far, I have had to print extra programmes just to be on the safe side.

[Rhodes]

Originally Posted By: Football Man

especially when (as in this case) the manager of the bigger club has a reasonable knowledge of the club and players already

Football Man - You make a fair point for a change however how would Ged Searson have a reasonable knowledge of Lee Scott and Jonathan Donoghue

[NeutralFan]

OK, different question here... What are the rules regarding a player who wants to leave a club and asks for his registration to be cancelled, can a player force this? (obv talking non contract here!)

 

PS If anyone wants to PM this rather than have it in the public domain then feel free

[Doug]

Waltham Forest signed our 2 strikers ( including our top scorer)the previous week and did not so much as make a phone call.

 

In fact Obinna rang the manager at 2.00am Saturday morning to say he couldn't play against Bedford but did not have the balls to say he was playing for someone else.

 

We are still waiting to hear from Chima !!!

 

We would have no objection to any player wanting to play at a higher level but at the very least they should do it in the right way.

 

As for reporting Waltham Forest what is the point?

 

More time and aggro for no gain. They don't want to follow the rules and hopefully eventually they will reap what they sow.

[Football Man]

Originally Posted By: NeutralFan

What are the rules regarding a player who wants to leave a club and asks for his registration to be cancelled, can a player force this?

No, he can't. But, again, there would be little point in keeping a player who clearly doesn't want to play for your club. There have been instances where club's have just left the player to sit and rot until the end of the season but they are few and far between. This would only work anyway if the player wants to join a club in the same league, otherwise the club he wants to join will put in a 7-dayer and he will be gone soon afterwards.

Generally, a club will normally hold up any transfer or cancellation until such time as any outstanding money and/or kit/equipment is paid back, then let them go.

[Bitch]

http://www.thefa.com/TheFA/RulesAndRegulations/Additional/Postings/2005/11/Section_C_rules.htm

[Adie Haynes]

If a club refuses to de-register a play for no valid reason the player concerned can contact the SSML or whatever league it is and ask to be de-registered that way

[Forest Gump]

Obinna Ronaldson made his debut for us against Aveley on the 19th of Jan. This was before Ged Searson took over.

[Rhodes]

I understand that 'the great one' turned up at Edgware Town on Saturday incandescent with rage at what Ged had done and they had words, apparently Ged was more concerned with what I would say about him on here which makes me think that he must be 3praise. What I can't understand is how Ged is leaving himself wide open to criticism and the risk of having the FA come down on him and Waltham Forest like a ton of bricks if rules have been broken, it seems very unlike him particularly going by the two page article in the Non League paper yesterday which makes him out to be a Saint who apparently 'learned all he knows from Sir Bobby Robson'.