The Images They Choose, and Choose to Ignore

[SteveP]

Well AFF, I think I am going to go with the Chubbmeister here, I am going to agree to disagree and start arguing about music or something that doesn't require an mini essay in every reply.

[ESG]

personally, Id rather jack than bomb Iraq

[Colin Zeal EFM]

 

 

[mdetaylor]

AFF

 

It would seem that Dee Dubya and the fundamentalist Christians (good name for a band) didn't think it all through. The state department and the pentagon have now decided that they have very different views about how to deal with "the Kurdish problem" (as described on radio 4 this morning). The pentagon have struck their deals with Turkey and cannot go back now - understandably the Turks do not want fighting in mainly Kurdish southern Turkey and do not want to lose land. The state department do not want to be seen to be developing policies that bash the Kurds (not easy to publish a roadmap for the free Palestine when denying Kurds an independent homeland).

 

The oil has been pomised to the people of Iraq, not just the Kurds, so allowing Kirkuk to be Kurdish run deprives the people of Iraq (also the Turks do not want a viable Kurdish state, which would only be made economicaly viable by oil).

 

It is quite worrying that it seems no one thought this would happen or that if they did they made no plans to sort something out.

 

Interesting piece in Paris Match supporting Blair - he is Bush's guide dog not his poodle - Jacques has done something to annoy them

[AFF]

Hi mdet.

 

Yeeeessss.

 

But the Ramalla oilfield, the largest in the country, is in the south of Iraq, an area populated and, presumably, shortly to be 'controlled' by the Iraqi Shi'ites.

 

You aren't suggesting that our great leaders overlooked these minor issues when sending 300,000 troops into the Gulf, are you?

 

Zealster will be disappointed.

 

Perhaps we should put the street parties and other triumphalist celebrations on hold for a while.

 

Hi stevep.

 

So you want to do music?

 

Who said:

 

"In 1985, blind faith in your leaders, or in anything, will get you killed."?

[mdetaylor]

or

 

"World Leader Pretend"

 

AFF - I have got the impression now that in Washington the right arm doen't know what the left is doing

 

Send in Paddy

[Colin Zeal EFM]

Quote:

"In 1985, blind faith in your leaders, or in anything, will get you killed."

Probably Springsteen. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

As for parties and celebrations... well it was my wife's birthday yesterday and we're celebrating tonight. Loads of partying for me then!! <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

[AFF]

It was, indeed, The Boss, CZ.

 

Happy birthday to the good lady, CZ. Try to behave. Don't let the mess in the Middle East spoil the celebrations, it will be all right in the end, probably.

 

mdet.

 

I'm astonished that the lunatics have got us all into this, m. Perhaps those who had reservations about the whole affair 'had a point' after all.

 

Here's an interesting question for you, mdet, for, as I recall, you have an rudimentary knowlege of legal matters. I've been out this afternoon and caught a snippet on Radio 5Live from Simon Mayo. He suggested that the decapitated [figuratively speaking] deposed Iraqi leadership are "war criminals" and will be prosecuted as such.

 

Quite apart from the omission of the word 'suspected' [unless the lunatics have abandoned the concept of innocent until proven guilty], what's your view of that?

[ESG]

 

sorry to but in but

could be the european model

 

 

guilty till proved innocent

[mdetaylor]

True - could be the there is your hole no dig your self out of it approach that some of the continent likes.

 

War Crimes

 

Seems unlikely - possible breaches of the laws of war about not fighting under a flag, or with unform, concealed weapons etc but hardly mass war crimes.

 

Possibly breaches of torture treaty.

 

If mass executions of civilians, encouraged suicide bomings, civilians as human sheilds, forced fighting by the Fediyean (sic), attacks on minorites eg. Kurds, can be proved then there may well be cases against the leadership. More likely for crimes against humanity and going back to the Kurdish village that was gassed this was out side a war but is clearly a crime against humanity.

 

The toss up will be if they are guilty under treaties (they obviously have to signed up to them first) then it is easier to prosecute than if they go down the crimes against humanity/internationally justicable crimes line that was taken with Pinochet.

 

Where they are tried is a problem as well - a UN tribunal a la Nuremberg, the Hauge is unlikely. The septics want to take some to camp X ray (they may get a few on "terrorist" grounds"), there is the possibility of closed military hearings or of public trials under Iraqi courts jurisdiction (although a functioning system may not exist). Looks like they will be rounded up and detained at Umm Quasar (sic).

 

There are criminals but war criminals is pretty difficult to prove.