Due Diligence

[bsmith]

Originally Posted By: Riverview Supporter

Its taken me 18 weeks to get permission to paint a wall.

Should have jumped the fence late at night, sprayed the wall and blamed it on vandals

[Andrewc]

Originally Posted By: John Pearce

Originally Posted By: Yorkfox

MYFC do indeed have to vote on the deal. One of 3 votes that will probably happen very soon. The others being about the Kit, and the 3rd about transfer funds. Dont ask me for more details, I dont have any :-)

Thats okay then, it should be around Christmas before anything is finalised?

And they want to vote to select the team each week?

Bloody ridiculous

Yawn

[John Pearce]

Originally Posted By: Andrewc

Originally Posted By: John Pearce

Originally Posted By: Yorkfox

MYFC do indeed have to vote on the deal. One of 3 votes that will probably happen very soon. The others being about the Kit, and the 3rd about transfer funds. Dont ask me for more details, I dont have any :-)

Thats okay then, it should be around Christmas before anything is finalised?

And they want to vote to select the team each week?

Bloody ridiculous

Yawn

Yep!! getting boring isn't it?

We are only potentially talking about the long term life or death of our football club!

[KShep]

Originally Posted By: John Pearce

Originally Posted By: Andrewc

Originally Posted By: John Pearce

Originally Posted By: Yorkfox

MYFC do indeed have to vote on the deal. One of 3 votes that will probably happen very soon. The others being about the Kit, and the 3rd about transfer funds. Dont ask me for more details, I dont have any :-)

Thats okay then, it should be around Christmas before anything is finalised?

And they want to vote to select the team each week?

Bloody ridiculous

Yawn

Yep!! getting boring isn't it?

We are only potentially talking about the long term life or death of our football club!

Was this before or after MyFC came along? Please explain to me how MyFC could 'kill' the club- they've made it clear that ONLY money that they have, i.e. paid-up members' money, will be used. No projected figures on renewals etc. will be used to justify spending. Where would we be in five years' time without MyFC and its investment? I think we'd be in an uncontrollable spiral, as cutting costs led to lesser investment, which led to more cutting of costs etc. Ryman League with gates of 300-400 in five years, or League Two with crowds of 1500+, with no debt- obviously this is just a prediction, but which one do you see as being the death of our club?

[Stu M]

Originally Posted By: KShep

Please explain to me how MyFC could 'kill' the club

Plus - leaving aside your feeling about picking the team, etc - is it really that different in financial terms than, say, Gladwish who came and went inside three years and even caved in early on his original deal? MyFC in financial terms is no riskier than a rich sponsor. True, they could all walk away in two or three years. But so could any sponsor.

[vander]

Originally Posted By: KShep

Originally Posted By: John Pearce

Originally Posted By: Andrewc

Originally Posted By: John Pearce

MYFC do indeed have to vote on the deal. One of 3 votes that will probably happen very soon. The others being about the Kit, and the 3rd about transfer funds. Dont ask me for more details, I dont have any :-)

Thats okay then, it should be around Christmas before anything is finalised?

And they want to vote to select the team each week?

Bloody ridiculous

Yawn

Yep!! getting boring isn't it?

We are only potentially talking about the long term life or death of our football club!

Was this before or after MyFC came along? Please explain to me how MyFC could 'kill' the club- they've made it clear that ONLY money that they have, i.e. paid-up members' money, will be used. No projected figures on renewals etc. will be used to justify spending. Where would we be in five years' time without MyFC and its investment? I think we'd be in an uncontrollable spiral, as cutting costs led to lesser investment, which led to more cutting of costs etc. Ryman League with gates of 300-400 in five years, or League Two with crowds of 1500+, with no debt- obviously this is just a prediction, but which one do you see as being the death of our club?

Sorry I got off this thread and away from the electronic slave today! But good observation Shep. I was looking for a local club to support having just moved into the area but having already signed up for the MYFC concept because I was intrigued by the idea of being actively involved with a club. When Ebbsfleet came up, it all fell into place rather neatly and I have in fact been down to Stonebridge Road a few times already. If it all does come off then as you say the investment will be a great way to grow the club. All the other elements of MYFC have yet to be tested and I suspect in the end everybody will be able to live with them because it will be evolutionary change rather than revolutionary...

[Uncle Urchin]

Originally Posted By: Stu M

Originally Posted By: KShep

Please explain to me how MyFC could 'kill' the club

Plus - leaving aside your feeling about picking the team, etc - is it really that different in financial terms than, say, Gladwish who came and went inside three years and even caved in early on his original deal? MyFC in financial terms is no riskier than a rich sponsor. True, they could all walk away in two or three years. But so could any sponsor.

glad to see that you have come around to that way of thinking stu as all clubs ultimately depend on someone with money (be it one or many).....

[Graham S]

Originally Posted By: Uncle Urchin

Originally Posted By: Stu M

Originally Posted By: KShep

Please explain to me how MyFC could 'kill' the club

Plus - leaving aside your feeling about picking the team, etc - is it really that different in financial terms than, say, Gladwish who came and went inside three years and even caved in early on his original deal? MyFC in financial terms is no riskier than a rich sponsor. True, they could all walk away in two or three years. But so could any sponsor.

glad to see that you have come around to that way of thinking stu as all clubs ultimately depend on someone with money (be it one or many).....

Absolutely, no club can succeed without a source of money far beyond what it can generate through attendances alone. This usually means having a source that is prepared to put money in & not expect any return.

Stu's real point, though, is that a sponsor cannot break you by pulling out, unless you have stupidly signed up to long term contracts on overpaid hasbeens. However, one single owner can. That is why being owned by MyFC (who, whilst owners, by virtue of the terms of their existence, will impact more like sponsors should they disappear) is so much better than being bankrolled, for argument's sake, by that foul mouthed barrow boy whom we wound up so splendidly on New Year's Day.

Sorry, guv. I'll get me solicitor.

Graham S

[Trebor1975]

Originally Posted By: Stu M

Originally Posted By: KShep

Please explain to me how MyFC could 'kill' the club

Plus - leaving aside your feeling about picking the team, etc - is it really that different in financial terms than, say, Gladwish who came and went inside three years and even caved in early on his original deal? MyFC in financial terms is no riskier than a rich sponsor. True, they could all walk away in two or three years. But so could any sponsor.

That's the whole point - MyFC isn't at all progressive. It's the same old ownership model but with the facade of democracy. It's still outsiders coming in. The only way to guarantee that a club is run by the people with its long-term interests at heart is for it to be run by its own supporters.

[waggamick]

Originally Posted By: Trebor1975

The only way to guarantee that a club is run by the people with its long-term interests at heart is for it to be run by its own supporters.

Enfield Town is a good example of a club run by 'its supporters'.

I would say the same unreservedly, for Ebbsfleet up to now if it was run solely by it's Trust, and was operated under a one member one vote situation as is the case with ETFC.

I will probably be corrected on some of my observations below and that's okay.

It's been my observation that two people controlled roughly 80% of the club.
They did so by buying 80% of the shares?
I'm not sure of their original motivation for doing so. It could have been that they are well off, keen supporters, who were being philanthropic and wanted to see the club they support do well.
It could have been entrepreneurial and they were seeking a commercial gain.
It could have been a mixture of both.
It could have been none of the above.

I would have thought that it was these two philanthropists/entrepreneurs/supporters/insiders, who would have, by virtue of their 80% of shares, have, 'with the long term interest of the club at heart', made the decision to seek out MyFC.

So Trebor, you can't have it both ways.
You can't give up control of your club to two 'supporters' and then claim that the decisions that these 'supporters' make in the best long term interests of the club are in fact not so.

[Trebor1975]

Firstly, I'm not an Ebbsfleet fan - I'm a fan of a trust-run club who is aghast at the whole MyFC experiment.

 

Secondly, when individual "supporters" buy their club it almost always goes wrong, as it does when any artifical influx of money comes to a club and they start living beyond their means. The temptation for individual supporters is to get carried away. The same will I believe happen with MyFC members - they've only got £35 at stake so a few "let's take a gamble" decisions won't exactly hurt them - they have no emotional bond with Ebbsfleet so if anything the tendency to do this will be even more extreme.

 

This whole "get on the gravy train" thing is exactly what's wrong in modern football. Try to win games, yes, but do it within your means, with a community focus that entrenches the club with its supporters rather than alienating them.

 

MyFC are just mimicking the "splash the cash" approach to football but with even less fear of failure, which will, I fear, inevitably lead to failure (if you see what I mean).

 

And for the record, when I say "supporter owned" I most definitely don't mean one or two supporters! I mean the whole fanbase.

 

Hello Uncle Urchin, by the way - thought of you as I typed this.

[doheochai]

Originally Posted By: Trebor1975

Secondly, when individual "supporters" buy their club it almost always goes wrong, as it does when any artifical influx of money comes to a club and they start living beyond their means. The temptation for individual supporters is to get carried away. The same will I believe happen with MyFC members - they've only got £35 at stake so a few "let's take a gamble" decisions won't exactly hurt them - they have no emotional bond with Ebbsfleet so if anything the tendency to do this will be even more extreme.

Actually Trebor - this statement demonstrates your lack of knowledge about the role of MyFC in running a football club. As per its own rules, MyFC is NOT allowed to create a situation where the club 'lives beyond its means'. It is not allowed 'to take a gamble'. Every contract that EUFC enter into as a result of a MyFC decision will have to be cost neutral. Even players contracts will have to have money set aside to cover, in the event that MyFC folds. MyFC is not allowed to spend money it doesn't have and is not allowed to borrow money for the day to day running of the club.

Originally Posted By: Trebor1975

This whole "get on the gravy train" thing is exactly what's wrong in modern football. Try to win games, yes, but do it within your means, with a community focus that entrenches the club with its supporters rather than alienating them.

And this is exactly what MyFC is going to do. MyFC rules dictate that MyFC must support ST representation on the club's board. The bulk of MyFC's decisions will be based on developing the base of the club within the local community and working with existing EUFC supporters to develop the club.

Originally Posted By: Trebor1975

MyFC are just mimicking the "splash the cash" approach to football but with even less fear of failure, which will, I fear, inevitably lead to failure (if you see what I mean).

The worst case scenario for EUFC is that MyFC will clear all or a substantial part of the debt the EUFC currently has and (provided there are no legal restrictions) would probably sell the club to the ST at a nominal price in the event of 'failure'.

[waggamick]

Originally Posted By: Trebor1975

Firstly, I'm not an Ebbsfleet fan - I'm a fan of a trust-run club who is aghast at the whole MyFC experiment.

Which one?
Only want to know so as to gauge the success of that model.
BTW I would have thought a club run democratically such as your own would welcome the further democratisation of other football clubs.

I've only ever belonged to fan run clubs. From local Rugby Clubs through to National Australian Rules Clubs with 55000 members.
They seem to work pretty well.

Private ownership is a new phenomenon in Australia with 'franchises' (they're not clubs anymore)being established in basketball first and now in the recently revamped A-League.
Waiting to see how they pan out.

[Slartibartfast]

Originally Posted By: waggamick

I will probably be corrected on some of my observations below and that's okay.

It's been my observation that two people controlled roughly 80% of the club.
They did so by buying 80% of the shares?
I'm not sure of their original motivation for doing so. It could have been that they are well off, keen supporters, who were being philanthropic and wanted to see the club they support do well.
It could have been entrepreneurial and they were seeking a commercial gain.
It could have been a mixture of both.
It could have been none of the above.

I would have thought that it was these two philanthropists/entrepreneurs/supporters/insiders, who would have, by virtue of their 80% of shares, have, 'with the long term interest of the club at heart', made the decision to seek out MyFC.

Mick, you hit the nail on the head first time.

They are "well off, keen supporters, who were being philanthropic and wanted to see the club they support do well."

Unfortunately they aren't well off enough to make up for the apathy of the people of Gravesham when it comes to supporting our team....and if they where when they started putting money into the club they certainly aren't now.

[Uncle Urchin]

Originally Posted By: Trebor1975

Firstly, I'm not an Ebbsfleet fan - I'm a fan of a trust-run club who is aghast at the whole MyFC experiment.

Secondly, when individual "supporters" buy their club it almost always goes wrong, as it does when any artifical influx of money comes to a club and they start living beyond their means. The temptation for individual supporters is to get carried away. The same will I believe happen with MyFC members - they've only got £35 at stake so a few "let's take a gamble" decisions won't exactly hurt them - they have no emotional bond with Ebbsfleet so if anything the tendency to do this will be even more extreme.

This whole "get on the gravy train" thing is exactly what's wrong in modern football. Try to win games, yes, but do it within your means, with a community focus that entrenches the club with its supporters rather than alienating them.

MyFC are just mimicking the "splash the cash" approach to football but with even less fear of failure, which will, I fear, inevitably lead to failure (if you see what I mean).

And for the record, when I say "supporter owned" I most definitely don't mean one or two supporters! I mean the whole fanbase.

Hello Uncle Urchin, by the way - thought of you as I typed this.

as a wimbledon fan trebsy you actually have to look at your own NL role as to the reason why clubs overspend in the first place.....do you not understand that your presence in NL for the past 5 years has actually forced other clubs to chase the better quality players just to compete and therefore have chased the income/backing required to fund that from any available source.....the alternative was for all of the other NL clubs to sit back and let you just win each league each year...

with an average crowd attendance at home of 2300 and a current wage bill in excess of 10k per week in the ryman league you have to accept that you shouldn't be there...not your fault I know but I wonder what your owners will do when you find your natural level in the league and have to compete on a level playing field..?

I suspect that your comment above will be long forgotten then as your fans scream for new players and better performances as they find themselves near the bottom of whatever pro league you are in.....be interesting to see what decisions are made as to pushing the boat out under those circumstances... I shall be around and shall be watching...

hope you lose today by the way as I have had a massive bet on tonbridge at silly long odds.....

[Trebor1975]

Well, that's good news that MyFC have to live within their means (presumably after Will Brooks has deducted his payments?).

 

But I still believe in community ownership rather than people coming in from outside. But maybe the Supporters Direct movement has got me by the goolies and I just follow wherever they take me.

 

UU: There's already a tension within the club between those who want to rise through the divisions to as high as possible and those who'd be happy to go as high as we go.

[Uncle Urchin]

Originally Posted By: Trebor1975

Well, that's good news that MyFC have to live within their means (presumably after Will Brooks has deducted his payments?).

But I still believe in community ownership rather than people coming in from outside. But maybe the Supporters Direct movement has got me by the goolies and I just follow wherever they take me.

UU: There's already a tension within the club between those who want to rise through the divisions to as high as possible and those who'd be happy to go as high as we go.

I know that mate which is why I raised the issue......your troubles will start when you reach your natural level and are competing on a level playing field.....'tis human nature to want want want.....especially on the terraces...

someone needs to be strong but will the terraces outvote them...we shall see...?

it is an interesting one.....

in the meantime we await both the results of DD from MyFc and also the transparency of the related costs....

well done today...good result and good luck in the next round...

[rvr]

Originally Posted By: Trebor1975

Well, that's good news that MyFC have to live within their means (presumably after Will Brooks has deducted his payments?).

But I still believe in community ownership rather than people coming in from outside. But maybe the Supporters Direct movement has got me by the goolies and I just follow wherever they take me.

UU: There's already a tension within the club between those who want to rise through the divisions to as high as possible and those who'd be happy to go as high as we go.

Trevor (assuming you are an AFC Wimbledon fan), I wish to extend a belated condolences to having the Dons up and taken away to MK. It is unfortunate that the worst aspect of U.S. sports (outside owner relocation) came and took away a historic club like that from you and the fans there.

Back on topic: I understand where you are coming from, but EUFC can't survive without the local community and I see (from where I sit) MyFC as a brace to keep the club going and prospering while the community catches up with it.

The fans here on this board are passionate, but they've even said that more of the community needs to get involved. I believe the club and MyFC can find ways to do that, in and out of Stonebridge Road.

rvr