Another New Thread About The War

[GHA EFM]

Interesting comments flying left, right and centre around here. Fantastic.

 

1). 'That's a good example of freethinking.' 'Is AFF your spokesperson?' This was spoken about in the Crown on Thursday night. Wether I make the argument, AFF makes the argument, EFMTFTV makes the argument or anyone else makes the argument, the validity of the argument does not change. EFMTFTV and AFF were both anti-war (I think) before it started. EFMTFTV and AFF share the same views. It doesn't matter who puts the views across, they are still valid. My history teacher believes that 16-yr-olds not being allowed to vote is an undemocratic part of our electoral system. This is a point that retains validity whether it is made by my history teacher, myself or Samantha (aged 9).

 

2). I do not believe that the only reason Bush and Blair declared war on Iraq was because of oil, contrary to whatever Zeal may have you believe. I do not believe that I 'bleat on' either. Interesting that CZ chose to state that EFMTFTV and myself bleat on about being against this war, but no mention of AFF's bleating was made.

 

Quote:

Bush and Blair give Saddam 10 days to act (last week). At the same time, Hussein had already destroyed 34 of his Al Samoud missiles, missiles that were banned because they can travel 33 kilometres further than they are supposed to. Despite this flagrant breach, the missiles don't quite reach the UK, so at the moment we are safe. But anyway. 10 days to act. 34 missiles destroyed. Is destroying a missile not acting? Or do they want him to do a sketch from Glengarrie, Glenn Ross?

 

The question of how much people know about what Saddam has apparently done (all these horrors) in Iraq on his own people is obvious: no-one knows as much as they think they do.

 

Whatever happened to Bush's 'war on terrorism,' and the whole 'let's go catch Osama Bin Laden' thing. Did we catch him?? I must have been off that day.

 

How can Hussein be proclaimed a 'threat to world peace' if, firing his missiles from inside Baghdad, they only just reach Iraq's borders? Is France an Iraqi colony? How can Bush and Blair, two of the world superpowers' leaders, who are declaring war on a country, not be considered 'threats to world peace?' Bush and Blair themselves have taken the first step.

 

The idea that the missiles are no threat now, but given time they will develop. Er. Right. Well. A 2-yr-old Mike Tyson wouldn't be a threat to me right now, so I don't go and bomb the cr@p out of the little sh#t, just because he may develop into a bigger Mike Tyson. I simply don't provoke him when he's older. Maybe monitor him from now till he's older, become friends with him, and hope he doesn't steal my lunch money.

 

That is taken from a post from yours truly in the 'war is imminent' thread. As you can see, no mention is made about oil. I believe that Iraq's oil reserves is a factor in the war, but is not the only factor.

 

3). Richard Littlejohn bores me. Support from 75,000 peanut huggers / egg chasers for 'our boys in Iraq' is not support for the war. It's hope for a safe return home. I hope the troops over there all return home safely. I am not pro-war, however.

 

No doubt you will be hearing from me again on the subject.

 

GHA

[Chubbhead EFM]

I just hope this war is over soon so we can go back to music/lyric quizzes! This board is so serious now, although that's kind of hard to avoid I suppose!

[AFF]

A small point GHA.

 

I'm not "anti-war". There have been "just" wars in history.

 

I was "anti-this-war" as I believe that there was no just cause for this war. I believe that war is the last resort of diplomacy.

 

[Colin Zeal EFM]

Quote:

Interesting that CZ chose to state that EFMTFTV and myself bleat on about being against this war, but no mention of AFF's bleating was made.

That is because AFF makes interesting and informed comment, GHA. Slightly misguided though it is!

[CANV EFM]

speaking of 'the sun' i notice the politcal editor T. kavennagh reports that the BBC's front line reported is aghast at how the 'Basra Broadcasting Corporation' is reporting and presenting events.. check it out..

[AFF]

....speaking of the 'BBC', a light moment this morning.

 

On the early T.V. news, there were reports concerning the various air/missile attacks which had destroyed the Iraqi T.V. broadcasting studio complex in Baghdad. In the car 30 minutes later, on 5Live, there was a 'studio discussion' concerning that target. Quite apart from preventing the propaganda and the displaying of POW's by the Iraqis, they will no longer be able to send coded messages to Saddamistas around the country by the odd nudge or wink etc. during the weather forecast or whatever.

 

Anyway. In the middle of the discussion, Victoria Whatsername said " Oh. That's odd. Iraqi T.V. has just started broadcasting again. Over to Arlo for the sport."

 

Well it made me smile. These Iraqis. Thay just don't get the rules of war.

 

 

[ESG]

Quote:

.... These Iraqis. Thay just don't get the rules of war.

AND 'they' wear civilian clothes..

Pistols at dawn, hampstead heath anyone?

[CANV EFM]

ahh pistols at dawn those were the days

 

slaps opponent round face with glove selects pitols..

takes requisite number of paces back , turns and heroically waits for said opponent to take first shot in insane demonstration of derring do and bravery.. cops rusty pig iron pellet in the knackers.. falls to ground and dies over the next three days of blood loss and hideous infection.. leaves enourmous estate to homosexual son with no chin and a lisp....

..

.

. mm maybe i should find some work to do..

[GHA EFM]

AFF. When I said your were anti-war, I meant that you were anti-this-war-that's-going-on-now-in-Iraq. Glad that we've cleared that up.

 

Quote:

That is because AFF makes interesting and informed comment, GHA. Slightly misguided though it is!

 

So anything EFMTFTV or myself say on this board is uninteresting and uninformed? But when EFMTFTV makes comment taking quotes from places and people, it is not he who is uninformed, it is his argument that is crap, an argument that is essentially upon the same lines as AFF??

[mdetaylor]

They had an Iraqi minister making a statement on the radio and you could clearly hear "I will survive" being played in the backround.

 

Explanation - he had just left the hotel disco apparently and was in the lobby outside. I cannot quite get the image of a hotel disco playing " I will survive" while bombs fall outside and a government minister has a bit of a dance out of my head - Prescott anyone?

 

GHA - I don't doubt that the point is vaild. I would still like some reason why not giving a 16 year old the vote is undemocratic. My comment about your history teacher was flipant I admit, I still believe however that simply saying he said it therefore it is right is not all that helpful

[GHA EFM]

Quote:

simply saying he said it therefore it is right is not all that helpful

One of the topics I am studying is electoral reform (1832, 1867, 1884-5, 1911, 1918, 1928 etc). His point was that we can look back now and say that the system was ridiculously undemocratic then (women under 30 not allowed to vote until 1928, secret ballot only introduced in 1872 etc) but in xxx years time people may look back and say that the electoral system at the start of the 21st century was undemocratic, for reasons such as a lack of proportional representation or 16-yr-olds not being allowed to vote.

If it came across that I was implying that my history teacher said it so it must be right, then I did not convey the point in the way I wished. I was merely using my history teacher as saying that that is his belief, and he is more knowledgable than me on the subject. He may not be right, but he knows more than me.

[mdetaylor]

Fair point - comes back to how far you can lower it before the idea becomes a farce - not sure it is quite as unjust as rotten boroughs though. I think it is about right now but things can change, I have been pleasantly suprised to hear how intelliegnt some kids they have had on the TV and radio have been, makes a change from the media putting down "yoofs".

[AFF]

GHA.

 

If you wish to stimulate debate in your next history lesson, you might make the point to your pinko History master that most of the problems in the 20th and 21st Centuries in Great Britain stem from the various Acts of electoral reform that you cite.

 

Disenfranchisement of everyone under the age of 30, and anyone who doesn't own 250 acres of land might be the answer.

 

mdet.

 

You've missed the point, old chap.

 

The playing of "I will survive" was clearly a pre-coded message to the 17th Battalion of the Fedayin to attack the right flank of the 5th Armoured Division.

 

Cellphones can be intercepted. Walls have ears.

[mdetaylor]

Spot on on both counts