When the referee simply isn't good enough

[Muppetus Galacticus]

Originally Posted By: samuelsmiles

When the referees stop getting the abuse they get week in week out by over aggresive fans and childish footballers.

How about hiring some officials who were born with a spine and are willing to be in charge and not let anyone else dictate what happens? If people know the way they act won't do anything but get them in trouble, they will stop doing it.

[Merv]

In spite of what I have written earlier, I do have a certain sympathy with referees, but at the same time I do feel they are the architects of their own misfortune. Perhaps they should spend some time being shadowed by a rugby union/league referee.

 

Have you noticed how, in rugby, the referee's word is the law? The players respect him and, as a conseqence, the fans follow suit. In football, when a player is cautioned, all too often he shouts in the face of the referee, other players gather round and the whole thing sets the fans off. In rugby, when you disagree with the ref you keep quiet, otherwise you are sent into the sin bin.

 

The only problem about refs getting tough is that so many of the ones I have seen are inconsistent or, like Saturday, they are totally lacking in any sort of authority.

 

Don't know if this is a chicken or egg situation but I still stand by my original posting. Poor refereeing caused this game to be abandoned and that simply cannot be tolerated.

[YELLOW]

Fans will always abuse the referee. Happens the world over I'm afraid.

 

At times with referees they seem to be firmly up their own arses and aplly very little common sense. No wonder players and fans have little respect for them at times.

[samuelsmiles]

It's very strange when the problem always comes back to the referee. Who 'lost the game', the referee or the players. I would suggest the players 'lost it' themselves, leading to a head-butting.

 

Yes, rugby referees get respect because the players repect and value his decisions, as do the supporters. I'm not sure whether it's a class/cultural thing or the different nature of the sport, but i despair when i hear the abuse of the officials at games, neutral or my own team.

 

I've never blamed a referee for my team losing, the players do a good enough job with their own mistakes. Anyway, if you give them respect and treat them politely and with due respect they are more likely to do the same to you....it will probably be to your club's benefit.

 

It's about time all that crowding around of the referee was banned and instant yellows were given for this, only the captain, as in rugby, should be allowed to do this.

 

I don't know if the competence of referees is declining, personally i would doubt it, but they ain't going to get any better when they are treated as they are now. I wouldn't do it for £30 plus expenses, would you?

 

 

 

 

[samuelsmiles]

Oh, and happy x-mas to you all!!!!!!!

[Guest MOB Snr]

Originally Posted By: samuelsmiles

It's very strange when the problem always comes back to the referee. Who 'lost the game', the referee or the players. I would suggest the players 'lost it' themselves, leading to a head-butting.

Dipstick!!!

We never lost we were winning 1 - 0 and were all over them, when one of the Witham players headbutted a Canvey player then the ref gave him a yellow card, that was what lost the game!

[ukhammer]

I have to agree with merv 100 percent.

 

We had this ref at our away game with waltham forest and he was just as bad then. I was closest in the ground at witham to the assault their defenders launched on Nicky Rugg throughout the 1st half that went unpunished. An early warning, then a yellow card to the most persistent offender (witham's no 4) would have gained the ref a modicum of control and respect. As it was the early stuff went unreprimanded.

 

When it came to the big rumpus the ref had no idea what to do with respect to 1st of all stopping it then punishing the offenders. To deem it equal that the headbutter and 3 of the players that subsequently got involved, all deserved the same punishment ie a yellow card, showed that the ref had no backbone or comprehension of the rules whatsoever. Quite simply the ref should be relegated to a lower standard of football until he grows a pair!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[samuelsmiles]

Originally Posted By: MOB Snr

Originally Posted By: samuelsmiles

It's very strange when the problem always comes back to the referee. Who 'lost the game', the referee or the players. I would suggest the players 'lost it' themselves, leading to a head-butting.

Dipstick!!!

We never lost we were winning 1 - 0 and were all over them, when one of the Witham players headbutted a Canvey player then the ref gave him a yellow card, that was what lost the game!

Well this just about sums the intelligence of the supporters up. By 'lost it' i meant the referee losing control of the game as is often suggested by blinkered, bigotted supporters. Did the 'red mist' come down when you mis-understood my comments? A bit like it did yesterday at the game? Never mind, keep hurling abuse at the referees if it makes you feel better about yourself.

[The Great Eckscape]

Give it a rest Gavin.

 

Referee's who do not have the courage to give the big decision quite simply should not be refereeing. Anybody can stand in the middle and give petty free kicks, but the big decision are what change matches and this guy fails to give them time after time.

 

There were three options for the ref;

 

- either he/his assistants saw the headbutt and sends the player off

- he/his assistants did not see the incident and give nothing

- he/his assistants deemed Colin to have simulated the headbutt and book Colin accordingly.

 

He did none of the above, and booked two Witham players for what must have been violent conduct - a red card offence.

 

As for the abandonment of the game, I felt the ref had no choice. However, had he made the correct decisions during the match as he knows he should then the problem would never have arose.

 

Also, the ref said he'd put about their players attack on our fans in his report, let's see if he does and what bans they get then. Cantona certainly got a decent length ban...

 

[Canvey Fan 1926]

Yeah, fair enough, its not nice for officials to face abuse from supporters. But hey, they can't care very much about it otherwise they wouldn't have started doing the job in the first place and if they are unable to get on with running the match then they should quit.

 

Originally Posted By: samuelsmiles

Never mind, keep hurling abuse at the referees if it makes you feel better about yourself.

 

Have you never said something to an official about a decision you think has been wrong? Obviously your in the wrong sport if you think football supporters should stand around keeping silent. Football - especially at non league level - is a passionate game. After paying the admission fee, I think supporters are fully entitled to giving their opinion to somebody who is being paid to do something if they think its being done wrong.

[samuelsmiles]

Originally Posted By: Canvey_Fan_2007

Yeah, fair enough, its not nice for officials to face abuse from supporters. But hey, they can't care very much about it otherwise they wouldn't have started doing the job in the first place and if they are unable to get on with running the match then they should quit.

Originally Posted By: samuelsmiles

Never mind, keep hurling abuse at the referees if it makes you feel better about yourself.

Have you never said something to an official about a decision you think has been wrong? Obviously your in the wrong sport if you think football supporters should stand around keeping silent. Football - especially at non league level - is a passionate game. After paying the admission fee, I think supporters are fully entitled to giving their opinion to somebody who is being paid to do something if they think its being done wrong.

Do you know what 'mate', i'm beginning to think i am in the wrong sport now. Last week i went to see Saracens play rugby at Watford and witnessed something closer to true sport than what you saw yesterday.

It's called the Corinthian spirit, sport for sport's sake, respect, knowledge and yes more 'passion' than you saw in your 45 sad minutes yesterday. And, do you know what, not the slightest hint of disrespect. Not from the players, not from the referee and not from the supporters. Pure sport, what a great day out!

Passion doesn't have to equal yobbery. I love supporting my club and i do make a noise, but not once, not ever have i abused a referee, opposing player or supporter, even if i thought a bad decision had been made.

Games like yesterday are destroying a sport i once loved. The player who head-butted the other deserved to be sent off. What happened before this i don't know, but pleeease don't try to blame the referee for all that happened here.

If the players had respect for themselves and their opponents what happened yesterday would not have happened whoever was refereeing the game. It's just a f...ng game!!

[BOROMAN]

Originally Posted By: Merv

Players started to lump into each other and the three officials tried to break things up. Ugly, but it happens. What we then saw was the referee give yellow cards to all and sundry but, unbelievably, no red card to anybody.

How can head-butting an opponent be a yellow card offence? Either the ref didn’t see it and no foul is given or he did and the red card is given automatically. Even the Witham fans I spoke to had to agree. This was the point where the ref completely lost any respect or control. From here on in it was going to be a free for all. Luckily, the half-time whistle went and the players all made a bee-line for the tunnel. What an ugly sight! Players fighting, fans fighting and even officials of WTFC getting stuck in.

Whilst I would agree with your sentiment mate, the extract I have taken from your post suggests that just because is ref is cr&p, that makes it ok for it all to kick off?????? Irrespective of the performance of an offical, players, Officials and supporters must have a responsibility to behave.

You obviously have learnt nothing since the battle of sungate in 1999.

[pabird]

Enough said on the actual events and Merv has covered every issue bar one and in his normal excellent manner.

So! what is left to say and how should both clubs react to push the issue in to the history file:

 

1. Both clubs must meet (earliest) at officials level and ensure a joint report is sent to the league reference the complete lack of control or understanding of the rules by the referee

 

2. Witham must comes to terms with the actions of their number 10, however you look at the incidents his actions on the pitch and off the pitch were 100% unacceptable and I will take a side bet that he has previous!,

 

3. Canvey must investigate whether or not their players over reacted and deal with them accordingly

 

4. Both clubs must find a route back to normal relationships and not allow this hiatus get further out of hand and that will not be achieved unless club officials demonstrate the desire and tact that fans can follow

 

Sounds trite but it is a game.

[Scuba Steve]

plain and simple--- if the ref had made the right decision instead of making a total balls up of it or even had the support of his assistants to help make the decision the game would have continued. I cannot understand how these sub standard refs keep getting away with these game changing errors, if this was the premiership they would be suspended or even dropped to a lower division as we have seen with euriah rennie (however he spells it) in the past. And if you think football fans will ever change then as you say you are watching the wrong game , go to watch the egg chasers.

[Canvey Fan 1926]

I didn't actually go to the match, so cannot speak for what happened yesterday. I am just saying that from what I have seen in other matches, referees are not always capable of making a decision when it really counts.

 

We were 1-0 up, so personally I don't/cannot blame the referee for anything (because I didn't see what happened), but I do disagree with you saying that supporters should not be allowed to shout to opposition players & supporters and the match officials. No harm is ever done by it until a reckless player decides he wants to fight back with his fists.

 

Sorry if you think it is destroying a sport you loved, but I don't think it can be classed as yobbery, and it doesn't affect supporters if they don't get involved; unless a match is abandoned for it.

[ukhammer]

You were NOT there. In my opinion the ref WAS to blame. Total lack of control led to anarchy from the Witham players - headbutting fellow players, jumping at and trying to get into the crowd, hitting out at spectators. Pin your ears back and listen - that is totally unacceptable and WOULD NOT have happened had the ref had control of the game and the respect of the players. Any reaction from the canvey fans was in self defence and thankfully all fans present calmed the situation down reasonably quickly and didnt use it as an excuse for a good ole punch up! Players MUST not launch themselves at fans no matter what.

[ukhammer]

Oops so there is no missunderstanding my last post was a direct reply to samuelsmiles last post - not yours Canvey Fan:} Sorry - i'm still new to this!

[F G United]

The referee will put his match report in. Both team will be summosed to the FA, with both clubs heavily fined. Match will be replayed possibly behind closed doors.

The referee will be backed 100% by the FA, he does not need to even attend. At the end of the day you will be unsatified with the FA outcome, but there is F-all you can do about it as there is no appeal system in place for this type of league.

[YELLOW]

If that happens then the same needs to happen regarding the Waltham Abbey v Tilbury fiasco. I heard a Tilbury player was quite badly beaten up by somebody who wasn't even on the field of play.

[F G United]

Possibly Yellow, I'm only going by what happened to the CCFC v Braintree abandoned game, except we were both kicked out of the Essex Senior Cup. Both teams unhappy with the FA dealings, they only listen to the Premiership clubs they have no interest in anything lower.